No One Cares About Making/Buying "Real" Cars

"Tom McParland" (tommcparland) 03/03/2014 at 12:18 • Filed to: Rants, Articles, Jeep

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We, as automotive enthusiasts, are all guilty of it at some time or another, a new model comes out by brand we know and love but that car doesn't "fit" with what we believe that brand is all about. The new Jeep Renegade is the latest example of a small minority of afficionados labeling what they feel is or is not a "real Jeep." While it is fun to debate on the internet the merits of such a model, the reality is carmakers and especially buyers simply don't care whether or not something is "real" by our definition.

The reason automakers don't care is because more often than not the "not real" models of their lineup sell far better than the "real" ones. Take Porsche for example, if you remember back not long ago Porsche purists damn near lost their minds when the brand announced it was making an SUV. Then the Cayenne outsold the 911, sometimes by a margin of 2 to 1. Of course Porsche was so distraught by the traditionalists crying foul it went ahead and made a sedan and that plan has been working just fine.

It seems like BMW is making another "not real" model every other week, noted examples are the upcoming 2 Series Active Tourer and i3. The i3 is lining up to be a successful model despite its limited production numbers and I predict 2 Series Active Tourer will be filling shopping mall parking lots in no time. Speaking of not "real" BMWs, the brand already has thousands of them already roaming the streets, the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and even E60 but it doesn't matter the 5-series sales are on the upswing and don't seem to be slowing down anytime soon.

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I'm just as guilty as all of you. I believe that Mercedes sedans should be RWD and all Audis should be Quattro, but when the dealers can't keep the CLAs on the lots and buyers are already chomping at the bit to get into an A3, I am starting to let go of my narrow notions. The Renegade may or may not be a real "Jeep" and it won't matter they will sell, and it will allow the brand to continue making "real" models for the rest of us.

What do you think, is history holding us back or can we learn to widen our definition of what makes a "real" car from our favorite brand?

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! is a professional car buying consultant, lover of all things automotive and a bit wagon obsessed. You can find more ramblings and plenty of carporn !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:20

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I have been trying to write something similar for a while now. Bravo for putting into words without immediately angering everyone like my article would have.

Chad Kirchner > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:23

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Automakers build mainstream cars to sell well and make money. That money then allows them to build the enthusiast vehicles we love so much. As long as they keep doing the latter with the former's money, it's all good in my world.

Kmccauley > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:23

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The i3 is the only BMW in generations that shows the engineering innovation and discipline that purists love BMW for. Bring it on ( and while they're at it, nix about half of the vehicles from the current lineup ).

Louros > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:24

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The only ones who care about "real" are the ones who aren't buying new cars anyway (read: internet commenters)

Tom McParland > Kmccauley 03/03/2014 at 12:24

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I think the i3 is a really cool car, I saw one in person and was very impressed.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:25

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First of all, fuck everyone who shits on the Renegade.

Secondly is this not a real Jeep?

Third, as ugly as the i3 is, it's a modern day, carbon fiber, electric/hybrid Isetta, so BMW gets a pass on that. The 2 Series Active Tourer should be offered with AWD and called the AT-AT, and promptly destroyed and erased from history.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:29

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If you can get the "non-real" customers to subsidize your favorite brands' production of "real" cars, what was the problem again?

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:29

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Real is a very subjective term as well. Did Saab stop being real when they moved away from Fighter Jets? Or turbo hatchbacks? And on top of that, unlike other things, the past of cars is not reserved for history books, go out an buy a used model if what you want is real.

Brian Silvestro > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:30

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I think what we're all trying to say here is that the Renegade is a cool looking little car.

BeholdTheCamaro > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:36

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I have to say that I do have a tendency to judge someone if I see them in a Porsche Cayenne. That car really rubs me the wrong way. If you're going to get a Porsche, get something that's not an SUV for God's sake.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:37

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While I agree, if the enthusiast minority is not vocal about what they want (and follow that up by voting with our pocketbooks), we'll all be letting electric beige-mobiles drive us to our destinations in the very near future.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:45

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This.

I typically view anyone who looks at Jeeps through the lens of pure offroad prowess to not have a single clue about the history of the brand. It doesn't mean I don't agree that I would prefer the world be made of cars I like, but I'm also a realist who understands that making money is why cars exist, not to fulfill my personal fantasies (non-dragon in nature). There are only so many brands that can resist change and still make money, but even they evolve a bit over time.

TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:45

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I agree that these are all similar, Porsche might be a stretch though.

Jeep has only begun to get their shit together and that started with the new Grand Cherokee, even then, purists though it was too "posh." It sold and still is selling like hotcakes. With the new interior capturing buyers, Jeep threw the same, fancy interior into the wrangler. Boom. Great Success. No one bats an eye until the new Cherokee is released, calls it "sacrilege" and variations of ugly. Seems to be getting adopted quite well. (The XJ was unibody anyway and that was a huge deal when it came out, now folks swear by em)

Now the Renegade, it's a real Jeep. A "new" Jeep. It's not living in the days where you'd be alright if your Jeep rode like shit, the plastic was cheap, and things broke all the damn time. Nope. Fiat's the best dang thing to happen to Jeep in a long ass time. Jeep is now the fun, adventure, out-doorsy brand, and it's working because Fiat knows the Marquee well.

Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes all did this as well. Not one normal consumer gives a shit about RWD vs FWD (they do care about AWD though). BMW is not the sporty car brand as we'd like to think, it's just luxury. Mercedes as well. Porsche uses its sports car heritage to market bat shit crazy SUVs that are also incredibly luxurious.

It's a way of growing as a brand, I think. You really can't survive making vehicles stuck in the 20th century.

TL;DR: Quit being an automotive hipster/luddite, enthusiasts.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Brian Silvestro 03/03/2014 at 12:46

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Especially in that red, it looks very well put together in red.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 12:47

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Cayenne GTS - over 400hp NA V8 with a 6 speed manual. Maybe they wanted the Porsche of SUVs? Cause I'd rock the hell out of one of those bad boys.

BeholdTheCamaro > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/03/2014 at 12:49

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If I had that much money to blow on an SUV, I'd buy a G-wagon.

Kmccauley > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:49

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I saw one in Monterey during Pebble and thought it looked like a refrigerator. But it's grown on me!

JR1 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:51

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I have given up on "real" cars. I can't think of a car company today that hasn't broken that idea at least once. I just don't want the flagship Lamborghini to ever lose a V12.

vicariousILive > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 12:55

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I don't think it is a bad idea for a car brand to make different models from what may seem to not fit the mold of their "real" car. In order to survive in any market you need to adapt to appeal to the majority of consumers. If Jeep solely focused on the Wrangler( Jeep CJ really) and not make the Cherokee, I don't think there would not be any new Jeep Wranglers because it would not have expanded the brand and generating capital to do the R&D to make the Wrangler better.

If they were to classify this Jeep Renegade under the Cherokee line for example I think I would shit a brick because it would not fit the mold of that model. So basically OK for brands to have different models. NOT OK for models to have different submodels.

Tom McParland > Kmccauley 03/03/2014 at 12:55

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For some reason you are in the grey on Oppo. I "followed" you to get you out of the grey, if you are interested in authorship to share carponz or whatever with us I would be happy to give that as well. :)

vicariousILive > Chad Kirchner 03/03/2014 at 12:55

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Couldn't agree more

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 12:57

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Well there you go - I'd want the SUV that actually has performance chops and is properly jalop, and you'd pretend you were a hip-hop artist by buying the ultimate posermobile. /troll

Jonathon Klein > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 13:04

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So everyone is mad about getting a rebadged Panda? Why? We can then all pretend we are James May during the week, then take out our C63 Wagon Blacks on the weekends and pretend we're Clarkson! Success!

Garrett Davis > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 13:05

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Agreed 100% on everything said here. It's always just a case of viewing the world through rose tinted glasses.

Everything was better while you were growing up because everything was new and amazing and awesome and it should never ever change from that amazing feeling of seeing a 911 for the first time, or riding in your uncles old Jeep! Everything should be kept pure and the same as it always was forever!

Well guess what, if you were born a few decades earlier or later, you would still be complaining, just about different shit. Before, it was that new fangled fuel injection sissy crap, right now it's all the electronic controlled systems that we don't need and in the future it will be that our Mr. Fusion's are stupid and time travel should be done the old fashion way... with Gigawatts!

You could copy and paste this article in any time period and just change some names and details around. It would be just as true as it is now, unfortunately.

crown victor victoria > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 13:09

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I think in the Jeep discussions especially, "real" becomes antonymous with "modernized." We have heard the explanations from the purists a million times - "it's gotta have solid axles and a two-speed transfer case and locking diffs or it's NOT A REAL JEEP! " And the bolded all-caps does happen too, because people get really bent out of shape about this stuff for some reason.

Instead of taking the defensive position and screaming about brands being bastardized or killed by the adoption of mechanical change, I prefer to look at it more positively. Why can't the Renegade be "the Wrangler of subcompacts" instead of "not a Wrangler?"

Pizza is great. I love pizza. But I don't look at a cheeseburger and scream myself horse about it "not being pizza the way I like pizza! Look at the way they did the crust, it makes no sense! And there's ketchup instead of tomato sauce! Augh! They took pizza and SOLD IT INTO SEX SLAVERY!" Let Wranglers be Wranglers and try to love other vehicles for what they are instead of looking at them through one narrow, specific viewpoint.

Can't we be excited and intrigued about Jeep bringing its ideas to other vehicle classes? Can't you admit for one second that the Renegade is different on purpose? That it isn't supposed to be what you already love? That it isn't Jeep's responsibility to build vehicles that cater only to the wants and needs of the internet enthusiast crowd?

BeholdTheCamaro > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 03/03/2014 at 13:12

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You will suffer if you go off road in a Cayenne, and I don't know about you, but if I bought an SUV, it wouldn't be to keep it on the road all the time. The Cayenne is an SUV that tries to pretend it's a sports car. The G-Wagon might be a posermobile for wannabe rappers, but it's extremely capable off-road.

Full disclosure, I hate hip-hop music. I'm a rock/metal guy.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 13:32

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Everyone is convinced the cayenne is bad off road until they drive one/see it in person. They're not as good as a jeep or land rover off the lot, but with a better tire and a small lift, they are beasts. Porsche even made a special edition - the transsyberia - to celebrate winning the transsyberian rally 3 years in a row with it.

The Revengel > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 14:01

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Cannot recommend this post enough.

Speaking as someone who hates the concept of a Porsche SUV - and I've posted as such - this article is spot freaking on. Another reply points out that you could post this +/- 30 years and change the names. It happens all the time, not just with cars.

Am I a fan of the Bender-mobile? I'm not a big Jeep guy, so it doesn't rub me the wrong way the way it does some folks. But as the author suggests I need to calm the flip down.

Kmccauley > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 16:24

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Thanks Tom!

Triborough > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:42

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It is a Fiat Panda in drag wearing heels.

Tom McParland > Triborough 03/03/2014 at 19:43

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That means it will win an award right?

Garland - Last Top Comment on Splinter > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 03/03/2014 at 19:45

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Saab stopped being real when they became rebadged GM models, with the Saaburu and Trollblazer being the most egregious examples.

Triborough > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:47

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You would have to ask a Fiat Panda driver.

Iwaswonderofwonders > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:49

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It will turn into a pile of red dust once it sees a Pennsylvania winter.

Loping Camshaft > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:49

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As long as these manufactures are still making the products we consider to be true to their ethos, I don't care as long as its profitable. Example: Jeep selling lots of this dorky thing and the Cherokee will mean more R&D budget for the next Wrangler and will allow them to take chances on stuff, which can be cool. Same with BMW, Porsche, et al.

Stradale > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 19:50

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Actually the Cayenne is pretty good off road.

User1312 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:51

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Doesn't every manufacturer make a model that "isn't a real ?"

The only people that care are car people. And as it isn't a real , they wouldn't consider it anyway. So people outside of the target demographic care.

So long as continues to make real s in parallel with this not-real , isn't everyone fairly happy?

sells cars and makes money

Non-car people get a car with a badge on it

Car people get to feel snobby

Scrape > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:52

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According to the specs, it will be 4wd only. Add in a "trail rated" package and why is this not a "real Jeep"? Then I guess the new Cherokee is not a "real Jeep" because that is based off a car platform as well.

This little thing looks like a winner for Fiat and Jeep if they price it right. I plan on looking at one, as I really liked the 500L when I drove one, and this adds the AWD and possibly a diesel. Keep in mind that probably 90% of the Grand Cherokees and Cherokees will never be driven off road, so it makes sense for Jeep to try to market a smaller vehicle that has similar capabilities without the cost. Their competition already does.

Tom McParland > User1312 03/03/2014 at 19:52

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Yeah pretty much this...

DammitDanny > crown victor victoria 03/03/2014 at 19:53

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This. Too many people did the same thing when the Cherokee came out. Everyone went all "ZOMG IT'S NOT 10 YEARS OLD AND IT LOOKS DIFFERENT " which meant that they instantly discredited one of the most interesting vehicles to come out of Chrylser in the past decade. How does the Einstein quote go? "If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will live it's entire life believing that it is stupid."

Tom McParland > Scrape 03/03/2014 at 19:53

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I am not claiming the Renegade is or is not a "real Jeep" but I do predict it will sell well.

Crentist > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:56

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Is there really any "REAL INSERT VEHICLE HERE" anymore? Technology has changed, expectations have changed, and just about every company shares platforms, rebadges models and recycles some other brand's ideas. This doesn't make any vehicle have less or more 'soul' than any other, in my opinion. It's just the way the world economy works, and what modern technology has allowed us to expect.

papasilverman > JR1 03/03/2014 at 19:56

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How many V12 Lambos do you own?

Onlooker707 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:58

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It's all a matter of close minded individualism. Nobody likes being told that they should broaden their respect for something that they feel is broad enough as is. Its the reason why it has always been hard for societies to evolve and adapt ever changing lifestyles. If everybody approached everything with an open mind there wouldn't be so much hate in the world. Puff, puff, pass dude.

Loping Camshaft > Loping Camshaft 03/03/2014 at 19:58

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Also, this principle is why BMW (and others now) can build so many variants, some silly, of each model. They had perfected their other models and can play it safe (for big profits) on the standard models, then go after smaller niches with the GCs, GTs, and Ms.

ScreenShot > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 19:58

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If the manuf. doesn't care, why should we...

BTW, _this_ is a real jeep:

Tom McParland > Crentist 03/03/2014 at 19:58

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Sir, that type of reasoned and well thought analysis as no place on the internet. :D

Tom McParland > ScreenShot 03/03/2014 at 19:59

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My thoughts exactly...now watch everyone lose their minds again when BMW comes out with a new model.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 03/03/2014 at 20:00

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Saab definitely DID stop being real. Rebadges GM cars were pretty much the end.

Nedus > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:01

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All of these things that we love, like manuals and RWD and such are eventually going to end up as odd novelties. Like when someone gets in your car that still has manual roll up windows, and they make some comment like "oh you have to roll them up? thats so old school".

Tom McParland > Nedus 03/03/2014 at 20:03

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Oh you have to shift your own gears and push another pedal...that is so old school. :D

MooseKnuckles > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 20:04

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if i had that much money to blow on an SUV, i probably also have enough money to buy a Rally Fighter.

Thisnewformatisrubbish > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 03/03/2014 at 20:04

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I know one thing for certain, this IS a real kinja. Shits all broken and different on all the pages. Comments get lost and pic links broken. Just like they should be.

Sir Culgets the Square > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:05

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I was hoping the new Fiat/Chrysler marriage would give us a small, capable Jeep. I think the new Wrangler (the "real" Jeep) has gotten way too big for the type of off-roading I want to do, namely bombing down northern Michigan fire roads and two-trackers. They're just too damn wide to fit down the trails anymore.

I will definitely be taking a look at the new "Baby" Jeep.

Powersurge > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:06

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Sorry but this article is just idiotic. Sure these cars you named "sell" but since when has that been an indicator of anything? (...other than the stupidity of the people who buy them.) Corollas and Camrys sell by the bucket load, does that automatically make them the best cars? No.

The issue here is that cars like the Cayenne, i3, and CLA dilute their brands. Porsche was built on the 911. BMW was built on sport sedans. Mercedes was built on outstanding luxury and quality. Of course these things change over time, but people who are loyal to these brands and buy their core products attach some sort of value that. When you create new products that go against this, and especially if the brand moves down-market, they get upset. Why? Because they see this as damaging to the brand's image, and if they are loyal to the brand then it reflects negatively on them as representatives of that image.

icemilkcoffee > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 03/03/2014 at 20:07

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Well, Jeep has had a long history of making not-real-jeeps.

Garland - Last Top Comment on Splinter > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:09

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No one cares about making/buying "real" cars.

Yes, that has become painfully obvious in recent years.

I wonder why automakers even bother trying to sell themselves a certain way. Cadillac claims to be "standard of the world," BMW is supposed to be the ultimate driving machine, Aston Martin is supposed to be a classy exotic, Jeep is supposed to be for hardcore offroaders. What do we get? The ELR, which is a vastly overpriced Volt, as well as a range of cars with nursing homes as interiors; Bimmers that do everything possible to disconnect drivers from the car and the road, Aston badges on shitty Toyota city cars, and a Jeep that is a lifted version of a bloated compact. Part of that (like the Cygnet) is an attempt to meet government regulations concerning fleet fuel efficiency, but a big part of it is also every automaker thinking they can stick their fingers in every type of pie.

Do I hate the Cayenne or Cayman? I think they're ugly, but they at least stay true to Porsche's overall philosophy. They actually perform well. The Cygnet? That's just totally saying "fuck you" to the company's image and heritage. I mean, what's next? Is Ferrari going to start building big trucks to go after all the people buying $80k F-350s?

The thing with Jeep is that the whole company is built on two things: durable offroaders and nostalgia for the original Willys. Every time they try to deviate from that with softroaders, they fall on their face. There's a reason their most popular model is derived from a WWII design. So when I hear they're introducing a new model based on a lifted Italian city car, that just screams bad idea. And I'm not even a big Jeep fan. If by some miracle this thing is actually a beast on the trails, I'll change my opinion. But Jeep is built on off-roading, so if it doesn't do well off-road, it's not a "real" Jeep, just like a really slow sedan would never be considred a "real" Ferrari.

coqui70 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:09

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It's as real as it needs to be and if the reports are right you will be able to buy an AWD (viscous center diff and lsd rear perhaps? I can dream) manual DIESEL version. I've driven CJ3, CJ5, Army 70's (with all independent suspension), Army Hummers, boxy Cherokee (4.0 still my favorite), Wrangler and Commander Jeeps. I learned to drive in a Dodge Ramcharger 4x4 and loved a soft-top Suzuki Samurai I had after it (talk about fuel economy improvement!). My dd is a 2000 Dodge Dakota 4x4 V6 manual. I welcome this - it will probably have at least 70% of the off road capability of a "true jeep", and a lot of utility in a small package.

Tom McParland > Powersurge 03/03/2014 at 20:11

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Or the other way to look at it is economics dictates that Porsche could not survive on the 911 alone there are simply not enough buyers I think they sold about 16k 911s last year.

As to the CLA (and the like), I thing an argument can be made that they might "dilute" the brand and that Mercedes/BMW/Audi etc...no longer have the same status among their fans. But again their fans don't buy enough "real" cars.

472CID > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:15

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I don't know who would argue that it is a "real" Jeep. Personally I think it's a neat idea but a one hell of a goofy looking creature, like a Japanese Kei truck.

elcamino94 > Brian Silvestro 03/03/2014 at 20:15

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It is so awesome because it looks like a 4x4 kei truck

potholessuck > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 20:15

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The Cayenne is actually known for being a performance SUV that you can take off road and absolutely thrash—it is built with really strong internals, has a locking diff, you can raise the suspension... it's a really amazing SUV. One you clearly know very little about.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:16

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I'm sorry, but if you want a "real" Jeep, for, say, rock crawling, buy a Wrangler, or an old Cherokee. Some people don't want to bounce along in a rough riding, slow, rather thirsty, questionably safe hard core off-roader that stops like a duck on a frozen pond. The Jeep Wrangler is excellent at what it does, but some people just want a safe, economical, small vehicle with a little bit of off road prowess (even that little bit is more than most people will ever use). And Jeep, as a for-profit company and not a charity for Wrangler-lovers, is fine to build it. Bottom line: if you don't want a Renegade, or any other aforementioned "un-real" cars, don't buy one. There's an idea.

Tom McParland > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 03/03/2014 at 20:19

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THIS!

Carwood > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:19

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Absolutely. I was a huge opponent of the new cherokee and while Its still warming up to me, I can wholeheartedly say I no longer hate it (its a pleasure to drive and rather capable). Frankly this corky design will sell to many who will probably find themselves traversing a few potholes but also to many who want a smaller but useful car at a fair price point. Id say this is a far step forward from the compass which was an absolute joke. Jeep purists will bitch and moan but lest we forget the grille hasnt always been seven slots..but you know what? Most if not all of them have been capable off the beaten path and fun to do so in. So if it checks those boxes is it all that bad?

CyanogenModFTW > Brian Silvestro 03/03/2014 at 20:20

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You are right. It is a cool little car. I remember the original cherokee was unibody also, but had a legitimate straight axle set up with locking diffs.

Though, if this little guy has locking diffs, low range, and adequate articulation, it could (maybe I'm going nuts) rival a wrangler off road... ?

Diesel and, well diesel.

Cars on the Mind > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:20

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I don't need all Jeeps to be the Jeep Wrangler but I do need at least one of their models to be a Wrangler. After that they can make pink tricycles, I don't care. It will allow the Wrangler to be purpose built and continue on with it's tradition of terrible gas mileage.

Jeeper1 > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 20:21

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I'd buy a wrangler and mod the shit out of it.

CyanogenModFTW > Brian Silvestro 03/03/2014 at 20:21

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ummm I'm getting double posts?

designerbation > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:21

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This is the automotive equivalent to musicians that "sell out". Sure its great for profit and you'll end up on the top 40's stations. But 20 years down the road people will lose respect for you, and wonder why on earth they bought your shit.

Eyaare > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:22

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Here's why.

Jeep's Renegade and Cherokee stand to redefine the brand, in a way that threatens 'real Jeeps' across the whole lineup.

Porsche, Mercedes, BMW are performance brands (okay, maybe not Mercedes, but we'll pretend RWD=performance for right now). They're also luxury brands. Introducing alternative luxury cars doesn't really harm their core products. What Mercedes does with the CLA doesn't even really effect the S-Class - neither competes with each other, and both are luxury cars. Cayenne doesn't do shit to Porsche because crossovers are luxury items, sportscars are luxury items, so having both still maintains Porsche is a luxury brand. Even BMW's thing doesn't matter - having a FWD SRX doesn't mean Cadillac can't make a RWD ATS - these are two different products, under the same umbrella of luxury. These brands are simply diversifying their lineups, there's honestly no reputation shifts being made.

What's fucked up about what Jeep is doing, is they're introducing these vehicles that redefine Jeep, and directly compete with other Jeeps. The Cayenne didn't compete with any of Porsche's models - the Renegade will steal Patriot and, more importantly, Wrangler 2-door sales. Furthermore, Renegade doesn't fit under the Jeep umbrella. What adjectives could you use to describe what makes a Jeep a Jeep, that apply to Renegade? (It does happen to fit Jeep's M.O. of trying to pass off crossovers as SUVs. But fuck shut up.)

The problem is this: Renegade and Cherokee come in, and instead of sitting alongside a diversified Jeep lineup, intend to replace it. And instead of fitting under the broad umbrella of what makes Jeep Jeep, they seem to be hell-bent on redefining the brand. Mercedes, a luxury brand, is introducing the luxurious CLA to sit next to it's current offerings. Jeep, a brutal simplicity and offroading brand, is introducing stylish city-slickers to replace their more traditional cars.

And Chrysler is doing the same thing by introducing the stupid fucking European aerodynamic Dart and 200 to push focus away from the bulky American styling that kept them out of a coffin in the first place.

Chrysler/Fiat is not trying to diversify the Jeep brand, or cash in on their reputation. They are actively and plainly trying to redefine Jeep.

CyanogenModFTW > crown victor victoria 03/03/2014 at 20:22

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+1

Tom McParland > designerbation 03/03/2014 at 20:22

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Or you will be like U2 and keep on rockin' despite some misses along the way.

CyanogenModFTW > 472CID 03/03/2014 at 20:23

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Wait what, is that a micro GMC/Chevy? Sweet!

Tom McParland > Eyaare 03/03/2014 at 20:23

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That was an excellent counter-point!

Cars on the Mind > TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma 03/03/2014 at 20:25

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TLDR...

But I do see a problem with them bringing back an old model and remaking it something it wasn't. This new guy is new and can be whatever Jeep wants. It has no name to live up to and no fan base as Jeep is a brand... not a car. The Cherokee is different.

TheMadJeeper > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:27

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See, I could see that argument... if Jeep wasn't struggling to keep up with Wrangler demand - arguably the last "real Jeep" made. Sergio Marchionne himself has even put forth statements to the effect of "You can't fuck up the Wrangler". The enthusiast base for the Wrangler is massive and it is one of the few enthusiast bases that is quite this vocal. What I think you see here in the 2015 Renegade is an effort to push out worse, older product (Compass/Patriot), globalize the brand better, and to meet tighter fleet emissions standards. It just so happens that the engineers fought for, and hopefully got, a vehicle with some off road chops in order to feel somewhat good about slapping the Jeep badge on it.

Cars on the Mind > Garrett Davis 03/03/2014 at 20:28

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I''ll just leave this here...

"People don't know what they want until you show them"

There is some validity to that.

Inspector Poirot > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 20:29

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Or a Unimog

Tzim > ScreenShot 03/03/2014 at 20:29

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I feel the need to point out that _this_ is in fact not a real Jeep. It was never made. A real jeep needs to sell, and while that thing is neat with its 4 wheel steer it is not a real jeep, and it never will be.

screename_today > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:29

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It is made by Jeep and has a Jeep logo. It is a Jeep. A real Jeep. Fuck the "purists".

XJguy > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:31

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Like I posted previously, the Jeep is not the best choice for everyday regular commuters, or even active lifestylers, it exists based on the capability of its predecessors and the Mack daddy Wrangler. If 9 out of 10 Jeeps are about as capable as an AWD Caravan, then the name means less and less even if the next generation Wrangler can operate on the moon and ford the English Channel, eventually to mean jack squat. Its name brand dilution at its finest. Owning a Jeep projects an image to all around you, but more and more that image is fading, Jeep brand commands a premium due to its reputation. As more non-Jeep Jeeps flood the gates, there will be less of that storied prowess to brag about, and more stories of how my neighbor's AWD Honda/Hyundai/ Kia/ Fischer-Price/ Barbie car didn't get stuck but my new Cherokee /Freedom/ Renegade/ Grand Cherokee/Patriot did in that last snow storm.

JT73 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:33

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My beef with it isn't that it's a Fiat ... the thing's just ugly. The whole front end of the vehicle ... yuck.

ScreenShot > Tzim 03/03/2014 at 20:42

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It's real to me and just like a fake jeep doesn't matter to the manuf., that's all the fact I need.

James May is my spirit animal > BeholdTheCamaro 03/03/2014 at 20:42

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As long as it isn't chrome or covered in "wet" paint, get me one also!

designerbation > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:45

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Well that's what separates the Audis from the Acuras, their ability to stand on that edge without falling over. IMO Jeep already has to many cheesy hits to afford yet another.

SaabLife, because Gripen > elcamino94 03/03/2014 at 20:47

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And one that doesn't involve stupid import laws. I just hope it's as small as it looks.

GLHNSLHT2 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:48

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It's fine, just don't call it a Renegade. I think that's what get's most people up in arms. Calling it a Compass or a Patriot would of been a better choice or maybe something entirely new since it is a new vehicle.

Big-Boi > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:52

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The Renegade may or may not be a real "Jeep" and it won't matter they will sell, and it will allow the brand to continue making "real" models for the rest of us.

^Exactly what I say every time someone brings this type of argument up.

Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 20:59

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I could see myself getting a Renegade.. and modifying the shit out of it. I think this may be a blessing in disguise folks.

It's tiny, and gives off-roaders some room to do their dirty work.

Mustang 'DontHitTheCrowd' GT > Eyaare 03/03/2014 at 21:02

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I really agree actually.

Jeep has the unique challenge of keeping their image, which traditionally is different because it is not luxury oriented. If they keep adding tech, that really means adding luxury.

Tough spot they are in at the moment. I just hope Fiat respects their roots and doesn't try to change them too much, because it seems like it's moving in that direction.

guglielmo > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:08

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i just wanted the panda 4x4. I didn't want a jeep anyway.

TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma > Cars on the Mind 03/03/2014 at 21:12

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The Renegade is not a new name in the jeep family, though. It's associated with the Wrangler (pic). I've always labeled the Cherokee being the more civilized version of a Wrangler, more practical if you will, not as fancy as the Grand. This is all personal, of course, I'm not trying to say I'm the authority on Jeep's market.

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:30

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Is this jeep made in the USA? Answer: no —-> not a real jeep.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:31

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I think we get caught up in how something looks far too often. I do think a brand should stick to what it's character is, but that is something that has a much broader reach than when purists say it isn't a "real (insert brand here)". I think the renegade (so far) fits the Jeep brand's character. When I think of Jeep I think of something a bit quirky, fun, capable off road, and with 4wd. I definitely think the new Renegade fits all of those assuming it performs well off road (which it looks like it will).

Purists need to accept that things change but still strive to keep a company true to its character.

keviiinn! > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:32

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anyone that wants a real Jeep can get a Wrangler. the Renegade looks pretty nice and will undoubtedly sell well. that's like people saying the WRX with a CVT ruins it, no it doesn't, get the six speed if you don't like the CVT and shut up

Tom McParland > FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 03/03/2014 at 21:38

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The Camaro is made in Canada, still real? The US spec Golf will be made in Mexico, still real?

TommyK154 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:39

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The only thing Jeep should be concerned about is putting a Trail Rated badge on something that can't deliver. Other than that sell the hell out of the Renegade bc it looks like an awesome car

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:43

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Nope, wouldn't buy a new Camaro or Challenger for that very reason. Although in terms of US parts content they are much much higher than this vehicle. No interest in ever owning a golf. I'll leave that to VW enthusiasts.

Art > Tom McParland 03/03/2014 at 21:45

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I am one of those that might consider this tiny toy. You see as an owner of a 2011 Mustang GT and a 2007 zx6r I am on the dilemna of selling my bike and buying something that gets good mileage but I don't want no appliance vehicle either. I want something cool and this does the part, but is it going to be offer in 4x4?